hey guys. ive bin setting up , repairing, and operating cam type swiss screw machines for 17 years. time to move on to cnc rite ? so many choices out there. what make do you guys prefer ?
Shop Doc Forum » CNC Swiss
whats is your cnc of choice ?
(8 posts) (7 voices)-
Posted 7 months ago #
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Fadal works for me... They are workhorses of the industry and easy to maintain, and reasonably priced for used machines.
Posted 7 months ago # -
I believe Heidenhain is the best control available. It works in conversational or ISO but I only use it in ISO as any true craftsman would. I can state for a fact that I have never never ever had one break down in 20 years. I have 8 large boringmills with this control and would not consider using anything else. When your spending 2 million on a machine you want the best.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Heidenhain support is GREAT also! But I also like Fidia for 3D models,if it's gun drilling than I love Tarus, for Swiss screw machines I love Citizen, for multitasking machines I love Nakamuura.
But don't forget all the extras to buy also...GOOD INSERT TOOLING, Barfeeders,you may need an extra transformer to smothe out the electric spikes in your area,new Air compressur may be needed, Programing softwere may also become a need, as well as coolants and machine maintenance. my fave CNC HIGH SPEED 5 AXES MACHINE IN THE WORLD IS "FPT PRAGMA" next to the DINO for cost.Posted 7 months ago # -
We have been buying Chiron FZ12-KW's & DZ12-KW's for the last 3 years and they have been performing great. They are very reliable, extremely accurate, and very fast. The service has also been very good. The down side is they are a little on the pricey side.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Re-bhiker,
"a little on the pricey side" The FPT Pragma cost in the 1.5 mill USD range.BUT it has multiple automatic changing heads that have spindle speeds of 10,000 to 40,000 rpms with cat50,63a/hsk,and 40/hsk tooling. feedrates of nearly 2,000ipm and more importantly the acceleration and decceleration to keep thoese expensive tooling from burning up in the corners.
some of the features include a built in cad software, laser tool measuring, and with the payload and working envelope large enough to drive car on.
here is their site:Posted 7 months ago # -
I'm assuming since this is posted in the CNC Swiss forum, you are looking for your first CNC Swiss lathe.
A lot depends on whether you are looking to buy used or new, capacity, and features and capabilities you need.
If you have no CNC programming experience, new Tsugami models come with interactive programming software that you run on a PC that makes writing complex programs a breeze.
For a first machine you would certainly want sub spindle and live tooling capability nowadays. You will find that 20mm capacity is the largest market segmeny for Swiss in the US. So if you are looking at used you'll find the most variety of makes and models in 20mm, followed by 12/16mm, then 32mm.
There are three basic types of machines; gang tool, twin turret, and combination gang/turret. And within thos three basic types there are a wide variety of sub types. For example; within gang tool machines you can find simple single path control machines that have a small number of tools all the way up to independent slide three path control machines that have a large number of tool positions and a control that runs three programs simultaneously.
As with anything else in life, you get what you pay for. If your needs are simple and your budget is small, then a simple gang tool machine would be a good place to start. If you are looking to expand your capabilities, you could probably still accomplish that with a two path type gang tool Swiss. Or if you need to machine very complex parts you might need to look at a gang/turret or turret style machine or possibly a complex three path gang type Swiss.
On a new purchase you can spend anywhere from around $100,000.00 for a simple machine with bar feeder on up to $500,000.00+ for a CNC Swiss with a tool changer loaded with every option with many price points in between.
If you can give some more info on what you need then I can give you a more specific recommendation.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Hello Odyseus: Being your first swiss cnc machine, I would say definitely buy NEW, you will get a warranty, training, programming and tech support and you will need it(Programming & Tech support that is).
All the major manufactures from Japan and Europe make pretty damn good, reliable machines, the Koreans and the Taiwanese seem to be doing ok as well.
The players: Star(Japan), Citizen(Japan), Tsugami(Japan), MAIER(German), Tornos (Switzerland), Hanwha(Korea), Nexturn(Korea), Cubic/Polygim(Taiwan)
So, out of these players you have to figure out what is your best fit. Maier, Citizen & Star make 20mm and 32mm that are fairly economical in the 130k to 200k range + barfeeder, not sure about Tsugami Nexturn or Hanwha and Tornos is going to be the most expensive.
Now you have to figure the best bang for the buck, what you would like for your capacity and capabilities. Do you want a machine that can run max bar of 7/10mm, 12mm, 20mm, 32mm or 38mm? This is the most important question and will narrow out your search. if your a job shop I would recommend a 20mm or 32mm. this will give you the ability to run from around 3mm to 32mm. Today you probably want the capacity, pretty much all the machines are running the fast rapids so even on small parts the cycles are not sacrificed all that much.
Next question is, what kind of work will you be running on this machine? Will you be doing complex parts, with angle holes and lots of operations? As this is going to be your first swiss, I would say probably not yet but you never know.
I would say your first machine should be a 20mm or 32mm at least 7-Axis, 4 cross working tools, C-Axis main and subspindle and 4 live facing tools on the subspindle. This should be standard for most of the builders and give you a great start for job shop work.
Citizen has a 20mm and 32mm A-series machine with barfeeder
20mm approx $150k-170k depending on options and barfeeder
32mm approx $170k-190k depending on options and barfeederStar has a 20mm and 32mm SR-series machine with barfeeder
20mm approx $160k-180k depending on options and barfeeder
32mm approx $180k-200k depending on options and barfeederProbably the best bang for the buck as a good job shop machine is MAIER.
MAIER Swiss has a Loaded 32/38mm MLK-Hybrid series machine with removable guide bushing (38mm) (for your shorter parts), filtermist and barfeeder
32mm approx $140k-$165k depending on barfeeder and optionsIf you want the skinny on the smaller dia. machines please email.
I hope this helps. Feel free to email me with questions cnc.swiss@yahoo.com always willing to help!Posted 7 months ago #
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