Shop Doc Forum » Rants and Raves!

1. Anonymous
   Unregistered

   What if instead of giving all the bailout money to the reckless, untrustworthy banks and incompetent automakers our government just gave the money to the people? I’m not talking about 500 dollar “stimulus” checks. Say all of this aid money, maybe about $10,000,000,000 ($10 trillion!), was distributed to 100 million tax paying units in the U.S.? The people – our people, rich and poor, would get $100,000 each, and surly they would do some awesome things to stimulate the economy. Think about what people might use the money for – cars, houses, college educations, stocks, bonds, starting new businesses – not to mention depositing the money in the bank. So the banks would get their liquid too! What if people got half that amount, a quarter? What would you do with $25,000?

   Personally, I’m very skeptical that the recipients of the current bailout plan are going to use the money wisely. Like so many people, I am scared that they will not learn from their mistakes. I fear we may be throwing our hard earned dollars into a black hole.

   I say let the people fix the economy!

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. Anonymous
   Unregistered

   You mean, "What if we just gave the bailout money BACK to the people?" After all, it's the taxpayers' money, not the government's. The government just prints the currency that makes buying and selling practical.

   Radical idea, letting the people spend their own money. Instead of the politicians using OUR money to do their social engineering, we could do our own social engineering.

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. Anonymous
   Unregistered

   What acrazy brilliant idea to jump start the economy. No tax credit mumbo jumbo no TARP, no PRAT (tarp spelled backwards)just give the money to me and the college student, army officer, single mother cafeteria slinger, auto worker, steroid retailer, social securiy collector, census taker, and damn it even a U.S. Senator. I will stop at Rod Blagovich, He needs to pay me back.

   Let us dream.

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. Anonymous
   Unregistered

   Maybe we should not do anything. It seems everytime there is a hicup in the economy or a business makes some mistakes the government bails them out. It ANYTHING sloews down we drop the lending rate or amount of liquidity.
   After listening and reading a little bit it seems we live in an artificially supported economy.
   The strong and innovatiive will survive!

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. Anonymous
   Unregistered

   What if... we weren't sending all our money off to other countries! While your idea is fine and dandy the economy works like this - you pay money and based upon how much then returns to the economy it helps it keep itself afloat, multiply it, or drain it....

   Example...(I'll use amounts to make my point).

   You give people money ($2,000).
   They save some ($200) and spend some ($1,800)
   The money then becomes revenue for the company ($1,656) and revenue for state as sales tax ($144).
   Company uses at least a portion of that to pay employee salary less income taxes ($215.28), income taxes of employees ($115.92), employee benefits ($165.60), rent ($331.2), products from this economy ($331.20), products from foreign economy ($496.80)

   In a balanced market companies themselves make zero so we're assuming the company keeps nothing...

   In this.. the only things that go back into US economy are:
   Rent (unless it's foreign owned) - $331.20
   $$ to the gov - $144 + $115.92 = $468.72 (Deduct about 35% to interest on foreign loans) --- 300.00
   $$ to employee (employee gets to save/spend)- $215.28
   Products from this economy (still could have foreign components) - $496.80

   $ 1348.28 goes back into our economy...

   That means if that were an accurate example 1/3 of our money is being sent off to foreign countries (probably much higher in reality) ..while we probably get a small amount of money back as people buying our products... and when this is over.. what will we be making anymore?

   P.S. I agree in some aspects Drew... industries need to sort themselves out on their OWN.. but America has betrayed it's people with it's open border policies on trade and whatnot.. leaving it so vulnerable. This needs to be reversed - badly

   Posted 2 years ago #

6. Anonymous
   Unregistered

   tornquist,

   I think you are spot on with the spending flow.
   To get to the root of it I believe Wall Street & Large corps
   became very good at lobbying for laws and selling it to the sheep (Americans who don't know better or care) that this is a world market. I can not forget those words of that little business man from Texas with the large ears during failed attempt to become our next President.

   I am not a protectionist! But large corporations have continually argued that americam manufacturing is not competitive, in some respects this is true but them pedulum has swung too far. American mfg is world class, we need leadership in the form of corporate leaders who really put innovation, quality, design and PRIDE ahead of options and bonuses!!!!
   When the trend for MBA's to run American mfg companies instead of people that know there product (ex: engineers & designers) began the demise of the American Auto manufacturing base.
   I pity all of those suppliers for the Big Three and I pity myself and the rest of the tax payers who are writing blank checks everyday. (This pathetic bailout!)
   I realize that many of you out there do automotive work, I feel your pain!! My feeling is that if they let the Big Three fail that the pieces will be picked up by someone who will run the companies as a business. Like the way that small business have to (You & I !!!)
   I don't believe anyone on this or any other board can have labor contracts, health & benifits packages, corporate retreats, stagnant product lines as the Big three do and make a profit!!!!
   Face it GM has had a 100years to figure out how to make autos that ARE the world leaders and make a profit.....they have made other choices.
   I rest my rant!

   Drew

   Your example seems fairly accurate

   Posted 2 years ago #

7. Anonymous
   Unregistered

   There's a great video on YouTube making this point. The "stated" cost of the stimuless about equals what the Feds. take in, in income tax in one year. Check out the video. The intro is a bit slow and the info-babe looks to pretty to be smart, but she is. Link to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV5Ulu86-TY&eurl=http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/12/video-attractive-economist-dumps-on-the-stimulus/

   According to the Heritage Foundation, actual costs, over the next ten years will triple.

   God Help Us One and ALL!

   Posted 2 years ago #

8. Anonymous
   Unregistered

   Lloyd, probably wouldn't be enought for him to consider it a "campaign contribution"

   I do love the fact he is talking about all the other pols in this state! Could get interesting.

   Posted 2 years ago #

9. Anonymous
   Unregistered

   Everyone I know said they would pay off debt.

   Posted 2 years ago #

10. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Protectionism will NEVER work. Bail out money will NEVER work. Work will work. As a country and now a world economy we must go back to the old work ethics. Lawyers, bankers, polititians, and more must stop putting a drag on the work and efforts of others. I wonder at the credit system that makes it possible for someone to go out and purchase products that they will never be able to pay for. Then have our system reward them for their problems and try to bail them out. This is not only the banks, it is all of us. We let this happen. If we are to use bail out funds, then we are doing it again. Why will my local city and state government create more government to help with social systems that they have not been able to manage efficiently over the last 50 years! NY and my local town are so deep in debt that they must lay off or raise taxes, again. The local newspaper runs stories about corruption, mis appropriated funds, kick backs, and greed. When we have 130 school districts in a small area, each with its own set of administrators, lawyers, works, and substantial budgets that tax us beyond reasonable and no one is able to begin to put a process in place to reign it in, if wonder if we stand a chance.

    On the other side, there is no place like America. For all the problems and issues I would rather be here than any where else!!!!!!

    Posted 2 years ago #

11. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    What would i do with 25-100K? I would pay off my debt. We should all pay off our debt. That will stimulate the economy.

    mark

    Posted 2 years ago #

12. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    This move (giving the money to the people) might pose certain problems though. You might end up with a nation of rich citizens lacking an adequate banking structure in which to invest and spend their money. Not saying I support the bailouts though; there was ample evidence of those funds being used irresponsibly after they were disbursed.

    Posted 2 years ago #

13. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Having a nation of rich citizens lacking an adequate banking structure in which to invest and spend their money is not a bad alternative to the current situation! It beats rich old men getting expensive back rubs on my dime.

    Posted 2 years ago #

14. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    True, Masterssullivan, true. My point is that the bank bailout has been reported as a 'can't fail' situation; that our nation's economic infrastructure would be facing an emergency if these institutions were allowed to collapse. But it's been frustrating to witness the lack of lessons learned as bailout has been applied. Giving the money to the people would be an interesting idea -- not that they're ever going to do it. Hey, Bush gave everyone $600!

    Posted 2 years ago #

15. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    I am a little surprised to hear all the negative comments when the government is simply trying to pay back its debt?
    Don’t forget what going on here. The government needs to pay back for all the votes they bought from people that don’t want to work. They need to pay back all the endorsements they received from large corporations while running for office.

    Posted 2 years ago #

16. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    will548, I appreciate your adding somewhat of a devil's advocate perspective on this but isn't it a little strange to start that by calling people out for "negative comments" and then contribute a healthy dose of cynicism?

    Good stuff though. Hadn't thought about it that way.

    Posted 2 years ago #

17. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    dhmargol, Thanks for being open minded, I get a little frustrated some days. We all wish there was a switch to throw to fix our economy, or any issue for that mater. The biggest problem is the size of this problem. We live in a global economy and from what I understand the globe is in trouble. Part of me thinks that our leaders have the Best Minds working on this and the outcome will be the Best for the Globe. The other part of me thinks there is too much politics woven into these decisions and that is scary.

    Posted 2 years ago #

18. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    It seems to me as an Auctioneer that the bailout money would be well spent given to small and medium shops throughout the USA.

    I see alot of shops big and small closing and it's a shame.

    How do we save the economy if we are letting all these business close.

    Scotty

    Posted 2 years ago #

19. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Quite frankly, this entire situation is ridiculous. I agree with jeffrichlin, that work will work, to fix the economy. Unfortunately, it will have to come from the ones that aren't being bailed out, who lack top ranking connections, who will reduce their own pay, and are innovative enough to find solutions to tough problems. No question that we are faced with a tough problem, manufacturing especially. What is surprising is the lack of attention to the manufacturing sector of the economy. Manufacturing is the foundation of everything. If it can't be made, it sure can't be bought. Manufacturing has consistently created large numbers of high paying jobs, until recently. Manufacturing cannot and should not be ignored.

    Thanks to our government for making our employees liabilities instead of assets.

    By the way. My $100k would reduce my debt to zero. The remainder invested in my business.

    Good point will548....I hadn't thought about it that way either.

    Mike

    Posted 2 years ago #

20. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    I agree, I'd pay off debt AND invest in the business. That's my plan right now, but of course we're strapped down pretty hard.

    Posted 2 years ago #

21. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Noah,
    When the stimulus bill was past and the specifics became known, you and I were of like minds which was "give the money to the people". The people will stimulate the economy from the bottom up. Instead the government gave hundreds of billions of our tax dollars to company management who ran those companies very poorly and into bankruptcy. Adding insult, these same management types rewarded themselves and their incompetent staffers with huge obscene bonuses... with our money. And they are still doing it ignoring government warnings and the governments promise to us to police how our money is being spent.

    Along comes the "Cash for Clunkers" program. By giving only one billions dollars to the consumers to buy cars, the money ran out within a week. A very successful program that actually stimulated car sales and the economy. People are happy to now drive a new car and the car dealers are happy for the windfall business. All this with only one billion dollars, not hundreds of billions.

    This is not a political statement just an observation that proved our point: "give the money to the people". If the government did that instead of what they did perhaps we would be on the road to recovery much sooner.

    Posted 2 years ago #

22. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Give bailout money to banks who got so greedy they paid no attention to the credit worthiness of their customers and "appraised" the value of their customers homes at levels that suited their own interests regardless of anyone's ability to actually afford the mortgage? Give bailout money to the Wall Street Boys who margin it on pie in the sky ideas and lose 5 times what they are given? Give bailout money to the automakers who sat on their thumbs while their foreign competitors kicked their butts and won't lock out the unions who are bleeding them dry? Give bailout money to the American family,sadly, many of which will drink, smoke, snort it away?
    No...I say give bailout money to the small mom & pop shops that are the backbone of this country. The small machine shops and other little operations with 50 employees or less. We would buy new CNC machines, develop new products, put inventory on the shelf, and shed the burden of accumulated debt. All of which will create jobs. Not flash in the pan jobs. Real jobs. This would allow our small businesses to be more lean and competitive in the world market and NOT owe a bank the principle and interest on the money. Oh, and guess what...profitable businesses pay taxes and gainfully employed people do too...hence the actual potential for the money to return over time.

    Posted 2 years ago #

23. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Nice answer, I say give the money Mr HPI.
    Especially after reading this...
    http://www.usdebtclock.org

    Posted 2 years ago #

24. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Oh my G_D! That is crazy stuff. I wonder if other countries have similar or worse figures. Does China have gages that subtract debt?

    Kwazy!

    Posted 2 years ago #

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