http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/forum/cnc-swiss Brought to you by Todays Machining World en-US Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:27:51 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/search.php http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/machining-sst304#post-660 Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:03:36 +0000 Anonymous 660@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>This may not apply to the insert, but when rotary broaching SS many of our customers upgrade to tougher materials and coatings for wear, but for chipping we recommend they try slowing down a little bit first. This often solves the problem. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/machining-sst304#post-659 Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:33:15 +0000 Anonymous 659@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>That's a pretty small I.C. insert. There aren't many choices of insert in that size, but one that I know will impress you with tool life in 304SS. Get a Valenite DCGT070204 1L (a.k.a. DCGT21.51 1L) in grade VP9605. EDP number is 19082. They have a smaller radius one also, a DCGT070202 1L VP9605 EDP# 19081. If you can go to a smaller tool nose radius, that will further reduce cutting force, something important on such small diameter stock.</p> <p>Two things about that insert will help over the current one. First, it's a ground periphery on the insert for a sharper edge. This reduces cutting forces and lessens the risk of work-hardening. The coating is extra-hard and the substrate carbide is sub-micron size, this will help with tool life. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/citizen-m32-bsp-hex-collet#post-651 Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:20:00 +0000 Anonymous 651@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>there is a keyslot in the b/sp hex collet but nothing to register it to the b/sp nut....do i need a different nut? </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/swiss-rotary-broaching#post-643 Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:53:54 +0000 Anonymous 643@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>The site is very professional and is easy to understand.<br /> Good work. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/whats-is-your-cnc-of-choice#post-642 Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:29:15 +0000 Anonymous 642@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>Hello Odyseus: Being your first swiss cnc machine, I would say definitely buy NEW, you will get a warranty, training, programming and tech support and you will need it(Programming &#38; Tech support that is).</p> <p>All the major manufactures from Japan and Europe make pretty damn good, reliable machines, the Koreans and the Taiwanese seem to be doing ok as well.</p> <p>The players: Star(Japan), Citizen(Japan), Tsugami(Japan), MAIER(German), Tornos (Switzerland), Hanwha(Korea), Nexturn(Korea), Cubic/Polygim(Taiwan)</p> <p>So, out of these players you have to figure out what is your best fit. Maier, Citizen &#38; Star make 20mm and 32mm that are fairly economical in the 130k to 200k range + barfeeder, not sure about Tsugami Nexturn or Hanwha and Tornos is going to be the most expensive. </p> <p>Now you have to figure the best bang for the buck, what you would like for your capacity and capabilities. Do you want a machine that can run max bar of 7/10mm, 12mm, 20mm, 32mm or 38mm? This is the most important question and will narrow out your search. if your a job shop I would recommend a 20mm or 32mm. this will give you the ability to run from around 3mm to 32mm. Today you probably want the capacity, pretty much all the machines are running the fast rapids so even on small parts the cycles are not sacrificed all that much.</p> <p>Next question is, what kind of work will you be running on this machine? Will you be doing complex parts, with angle holes and lots of operations? As this is going to be your first swiss, I would say probably not yet but you never know.</p> <p>I would say your first machine should be a 20mm or 32mm at least 7-Axis, 4 cross working tools, C-Axis main and subspindle and 4 live facing tools on the subspindle. This should be standard for most of the builders and give you a great start for job shop work.</p> <p>Citizen has a 20mm and 32mm A-series machine with barfeeder<br /> 20mm approx $150k-170k depending on options and barfeeder<br /> 32mm approx $170k-190k depending on options and barfeeder</p> <p>Star has a 20mm and 32mm SR-series machine with barfeeder<br /> 20mm approx $160k-180k depending on options and barfeeder<br /> 32mm approx $180k-200k depending on options and barfeeder</p> <p>Probably the best bang for the buck as a good job shop machine is MAIER.<br /> MAIER Swiss has a Loaded 32/38mm MLK-Hybrid series machine with removable guide bushing (38mm) (for your shorter parts), filtermist and barfeeder<br /> 32mm approx $140k-$165k depending on barfeeder and options</p> <p>If you want the skinny on the smaller dia. machines please email.<br /> I hope this helps. Feel free to email me with questions <a href="mailto:cnc.swiss@yahoo.com">cnc.swiss@yahoo.com</a> always willing to help! </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/swiss-rotary-broaching#post-636 Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:46:38 +0000 Anonymous 636@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>I just created a new web page to help focus on our Swiss Rotary Broaching Toolholders instead of looking through all the various options.<br /> <a href="http://www.swissrotarybroaching.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.swissrotarybroaching.com</a> </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/machining-sst304#post-632 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:02:14 +0000 Anonymous 632@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>I'm using a CNC swiss type lathe. We are trying to machine bar 1/8 SST304, but we have problems with tool wear and chip control, we are using a SECO DCMT 070204 F1 CP500, the cutting conditions are RPM 8000, F=0.04 mm/rev DOC=0.8 mm. Got any tips to improve the process? </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/whats-is-your-cnc-of-choice#post-619 Fri, 24 Jul 2009 16:50:30 +0000 Anonymous 619@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>I'm assuming since this is posted in the CNC Swiss forum, you are looking for your first CNC Swiss lathe.</p> <p>A lot depends on whether you are looking to buy used or new, capacity, and features and capabilities you need.</p> <p>If you have no CNC programming experience, new Tsugami models come with interactive programming software that you run on a PC that makes writing complex programs a breeze.</p> <p>For a first machine you would certainly want sub spindle and live tooling capability nowadays. You will find that 20mm capacity is the largest market segmeny for Swiss in the US. So if you are looking at used you'll find the most variety of makes and models in 20mm, followed by 12/16mm, then 32mm.</p> <p>There are three basic types of machines; gang tool, twin turret, and combination gang/turret. And within thos three basic types there are a wide variety of sub types. For example; within gang tool machines you can find simple single path control machines that have a small number of tools all the way up to independent slide three path control machines that have a large number of tool positions and a control that runs three programs simultaneously.</p> <p>As with anything else in life, you get what you pay for. If your needs are simple and your budget is small, then a simple gang tool machine would be a good place to start. If you are looking to expand your capabilities, you could probably still accomplish that with a two path type gang tool Swiss. Or if you need to machine very complex parts you might need to look at a gang/turret or turret style machine or possibly a complex three path gang type Swiss.</p> <p>On a new purchase you can spend anywhere from around $100,000.00 for a simple machine with bar feeder on up to $500,000.00+ for a CNC Swiss with a tool changer loaded with every option with many price points in between.</p> <p>If you can give some more info on what you need then I can give you a more specific recommendation. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/whats-is-your-cnc-of-choice#post-615 Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:18:43 +0000 Anonymous 615@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>Re-bhiker,<br /> "a little on the pricey side" The FPT Pragma cost in the 1.5 mill USD range.BUT it has multiple automatic changing heads that have spindle speeds of 10,000 to 40,000 rpms with cat50,63a/hsk,and 40/hsk tooling. feedrates of nearly 2,000ipm and more importantly the acceleration and decceleration to keep thoese expensive tooling from burning up in the corners.<br /> some of the features include a built in cad software, laser tool measuring, and with the payload and working envelope large enough to drive car on.<br /> here is their site: </p> <p><a href="http://www.fptindustrie.com/en/home.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.fptindustrie.com/en/home.htm</a> </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/whats-is-your-cnc-of-choice#post-593 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:50:19 +0000 Anonymous 593@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>Test to reply </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/whats-is-your-cnc-of-choice#post-592 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:47:36 +0000 Anonymous 592@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>We have been buying Chiron FZ12-KW's &#38; DZ12-KW's for the last 3 years and they have been performing great. They are very reliable, extremely accurate, and very fast. The service has also been very good. The down side is they are a little on the pricey side. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/whats-is-your-cnc-of-choice#post-576 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:10:06 +0000 Anonymous 576@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>Heidenhain support is GREAT also! But I also like Fidia for 3D models,if it's gun drilling than I love Tarus, for Swiss screw machines I love Citizen, for multitasking machines I love Nakamuura.<br /> But don't forget all the extras to buy also...GOOD INSERT TOOLING, Barfeeders,you may need an extra transformer to smothe out the electric spikes in your area,new Air compressur may be needed, Programing softwere may also become a need, as well as coolants and machine maintenance. my fave CNC HIGH SPEED 5 AXES MACHINE IN THE WORLD IS "FPT PRAGMA" next to the DINO for cost. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/whats-is-your-cnc-of-choice#post-565 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:11:08 +0000 Anonymous 565@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>I believe Heidenhain is the best control available. It works in conversational or ISO but I only use it in ISO as any true craftsman would. I can state for a fact that I have never never ever had one break down in 20 years. I have 8 large boringmills with this control and would not consider using anything else. When your spending 2 million on a machine you want the best. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/whats-is-your-cnc-of-choice#post-538 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:04:35 +0000 Anonymous 538@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>Fadal works for me... They are workhorses of the industry and easy to maintain, and reasonably priced for used machines. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/whats-is-your-cnc-of-choice#post-537 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:31:42 +0000 Anonymous 537@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>hey guys. ive bin setting up , repairing, and operating cam type swiss screw machines for 17 years. time to move on to cnc rite ? so many choices out there. what make do you guys prefer ? </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/headstock-collet-cap-is-stuck-tight-on-the-spindle#post-438 Sat, 18 Apr 2009 06:14:42 +0000 Anonymous 438@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>I'm not a big fan of using the spindle lock either. Especially if it's an indexing spindle with a shot pin. Over time the shot pin can bend, break, or at the very least become misaligned which will cause spindle index alarms.</p> <p>Clean and grease everything when changing over. Tighten a reasonable amount, and usually the cap won't stick.</p> <p>Although years ago I worked at a place that had a Citizen F16 where the collet nut always stuck after long runs. The spindle used to get quite hot. Eventually the bearings in the spindle failed and the heat problem got a lot better with the new bearings. As a result the cap didn't get stuck as hard or as often. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/turning-miniature-parts-in-titanium#post-380 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 15:06:16 +0000 Anonymous 380@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>We did an interview for TMW a while back with someone at Smaltec, a firm outside of Chicago specializing in micro machining equipment. Maybe they can be of assistance. <a href="http://www.smaltec.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.smaltec.com/</a> </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/turning-miniature-parts-in-titanium#post-378 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:39:36 +0000 Anonymous 378@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>I was hoping someone could help me with a problem. I am using a Tsugami BW 12 swiss to turn a 6AL/4V Ti part .5 mm at the tip back 1.25mm then neck down to.3mm for a run of 14mm to a diameter of .6mm, My problem is when I bring my back turning tool down to the .3 diameter it just tears off the larger .5 diameter tip.<br /> Any suggestions or comments would be most helpful. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/headstock-collet-cap-is-stuck-tight-on-the-spindle#post-336 Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:27:54 +0000 Anonymous 336@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>I've had the same problems. My fix has been: First don't over tighten it to start with, if your grunting it's already too tight. Second to easily remove the cap put the wrenchs on so you can squeeze them together with one hand out at the end of the handles. I use my left. And with a mallet in the other hand, hit the cap wrench, down near the cap. Do not hit the wrench on the spindle, let the mass of the spindle help you, this way your trying to turn the cap with the jar from the mallet not the spindle. This is the same as TRRINO said to do but I don't like to put the shock on the spindle lock, the same guys that over tighten thing typically use oversize hammers for the job. Thats just my opinion,to each their own. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/safety-issues-when-running-lights-out#post-326 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:07:14 +0000 Anonymous 326@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>We've run lights out for 8 years. But we also have some parttimers come and do a 3-4 hour check. Example, we close at 4:30pm, so, 1st check at 7:30pm, then 10pm, if all is well, we set counters and run another 3 hours.. the policy is: if they are bad parts, throw them. cost is minimal to sorting. We also have insurance to cover fire hazards.. insurance is to give you peace of mind... use it. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/the-tolerance-is-too-tight-for-a-hollow-mill-know-a-better-end-mill-or-method#post-324 Sat, 28 Mar 2009 14:30:23 +0000 Anonymous 324@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>There are a lot of people outfitting their CNC machines with carbide insert box tools (Boyar-Schultz or Brown &#38; Sharpe). The method is old but it still works great for control of long diameters. This is done with the controling rollers. You may not have the room on this given machine, but it does work.</p> <p><a href="http://www.boyar-schultzsmt.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.boyar-schultzsmt.com</a> </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/headstock-collet-cap-is-stuck-tight-on-the-spindle#post-320 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:50:58 +0000 Anonymous 320@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>I've had the same trouble with Headstock caps too, but because the techs here all think everything from drill spindles, tool holders bolts and headstck caps need to be tightened with a 6ft bar on the wrench!!<br /> As for stuck headstock caps -try locking the spindle-as in for milling and use your spanner with a rubber or brass mallet to loosen.<br /> For guide bushings can you use silicone to seal them ? I don't use any grease on collets or bushings for the reasons stated. To clean them a little kero or WD works fine here.<br /> TRR. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/safety-issues-when-running-lights-out#post-318 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 22:01:14 +0000 Anonymous 318@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>Very true, Masterssullivan, very true. Not sure I get the scatalogical take on the matter though. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/headstock-collet-cap-is-stuck-tight-on-the-spindle#post-317 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:26:35 +0000 Anonymous 317@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>Not much you can do except take time to work the nut back and forth until it comes off. As the nut is loosens try using a bit of compressed air to blow off some of the residual grease and fines.<br /> You can look into a sealed guide bushing. We have found that they are just too expensive to justify the purchase, as this is not an everyday problem </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/headstock-collet-cap-is-stuck-tight-on-the-spindle#post-313 Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:15:44 +0000 Anonymous 313@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>So then what do try if that happens? </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/headstock-collet-cap-is-stuck-tight-on-the-spindle#post-311 Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:13:15 +0000 Anonymous 311@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>We have used an anti-seize grease on the g.b. nut. This proves effective in most cases. The only time it has been problematic is when you are creating a lot of small fines from either milling or slotting. These fines will adhere to the grease and make a paste. This paste will dry, inturn making the guide bushing nut extremely difficult to remove. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/the-tolerance-is-too-tight-for-a-hollow-mill-know-a-better-end-mill-or-method#post-310 Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:48:12 +0000 Anonymous 310@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>We are running a shaft on our CNC Swiss that has an eccentric diameter on one end. We tried picking off the shaft and milling the eccentric with an end mill but could not get the required surface finish. The tolerance is too tight for a hollow mill. Is there a better end mill or method we can use? </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/headstock-collet-cap-is-stuck-tight-on-the-spindle#post-309 Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:44:24 +0000 Anonymous 309@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>Whenever you change over the machine, it’s a good idea to put a small amount of anti-seize grease on the threads of your headstock collet cap as well as your guide bushing adjusting nut. Anti-seize grease will help prevent the threads from sticking. It’s also not a bad idea to put a small dab on the screw threads of your turning holders. It helps speed up insert changes and helps prevent stripping out the hex and Torx heads. </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/headstock-collet-cap-is-stuck-tight-on-the-spindle#post-308 Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:49:53 +0000 Anonymous 308@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>Whenever we finish up a long running job we find that our headstock collet cap is stuck tight on the spindle. It takes a considerable amount of time and effort to remove it. Is there any way to prevent this in the future? </p> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/topic/safety-issues-when-running-lights-out#post-262 Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:38:02 +0000 Anonymous 262@http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/forum/ <p>Agreed, if a fart is smelling predictably during the shit then it's a good candidate for lights out. And automating a shit and fart system is simple enough. Like so many things in life, it just requires actively engaging the range of options out there to smell success. </p>